The New Pandora Requirements

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by A-Town Brown on June 30, 2009 at 4:16pm

Well, I see the new requirements on Pandora as an attempt to filter a lot of artists today who just make a few songs and throw them up online to generate buzz or plays. Some artists in these modern days don't take the artist form as seriously, and as a result, the quality of music may not be up to the standards many would like them to be. I see what Pandora has done as a way to make sure that they have only the artists who have their stuff together and are serious about putting music out that they believe is great quality out to the world.

My only concern is the requirement of having to have your physical CD sold through Amazon. Obviously, it is money for Amazon to make by having artists sign up for the Advantage Program, and Pandora is in good relations with them. I have every requirement on that list except for the physical copy at Amazon, and this could be deterring to some indie artists who are not quite capable of making such a commitment. But at the end of the day, money is a factor, so you have to take what they give with a grain of salt.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Marja Ernst on June 30, 2009 at 4:18pm

OK. I think this is a multi-tiered problem, and I don`t believe there is any simple answer to it. My previous perception of Pandora was that they were quite indie-friendly. Their latest requirements have tainted this view.

I can understand why Pandora implemented their new requirements, they wanted to reduce clutter. However, they could have done this simply by implementing the fee and the requirement for the UPC code. That in itself would raise the bar, reduce clutter, and ensure they were paid for the task of rooting through countless hundreds of albums searching for good music.

However, what really rankles with me is their requirement for the CDs to be available through Amazon. It strikes a very discordant note with me. Why? I haven't quite figured that out yet, but I feel much the same about many of these other 'exclusive' deals. They make me feel manipulated and taken advantage of. Why should I have to put my music on Amazon just so I can submit my music to Pandora (even if I do so, the chances Pandora will accept my music are not overly high!)

On their own, these requirements are not overly arduous, and most of them are in fact quite reasonable. However, all together, they raise the bar far higher than I believe is reasonable, especially if Pandora wants to maintain their 'indie friendly' reputation.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Helen Austin on June 30, 2009 at 5:19pm

At a time where physical CDs are getting less relevant in the music world, it seems like an odd requirement that an artist must have one to sell. The fee is not the issue for me, but I have stopped producing CDs and only release via downloads now.

But as a Canadian I cannot listen to Pandora anyway....and it seems I cannot sell there now either.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by the Endless on June 30, 2009 at 5:37pm

Personally, I'm happy about it because we have been submitting our CDs to Pandora for a few years with no result. We weren't sure how to get them to notice us. Maybe now, hopefully, our music will finally get up there through this new process.

I don't have any problem with the Amazon requirement. I agree with Helen that CDs are becoming less relevant, but to some they are still important. If you're going to put out a physical release, paying the $29.95 to have your CD listed is just part of the necessary process of distributing your work to the public. Amazon (along with CDBaby) should be the two big priorities when you put out a CD.

I'd be glad to link to our Amazon listing because that's how the buyer gets a quick and easy buying link from Pandora, along with reliable artwork. It just makes sense. I want someone listening to our music to be able to buy it in one click of they're interested.

I agree that it definitely is going to make it harder for people to get their music on Pandora (especially if they are solely distributing electronically). It's a move that can't last for long as the paradigm changes. But I swear we have been trying for years to get Pandora's attention no effect anyway, so perhaps this is better! Time will tell.

My band: the Endless on Twitter

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Jay Baggett on June 30, 2009 at 5:42pm

I, too, can see why they would want to reduce the "noise". My issue lies in forcing not only a physical product, but also into giving up MORE than half of the sale price to Amazon. I could even see the physical product stipulation if they were allowing for link-back to sales platforms on the artist's site, or prepared to do distribution themselves. Or why not allow for linking through to a more indie-friendly service, like CD Baby? Or why not have the fee structure on the Pandora end, to allow them the resources to better filter content themselves? I'd much rather give money to Pandora themselves, than be forced into a relationship with a separate company who doesn't exist to help musicians at all.
And if physical product is on it's way out, as people are suggesting, then why not at least allow for digital sales on Amazon too? This still, however, doesn't address the 55% cut they're taking, which as far as I'm concerned is a robbery. I really just think this "solution" is short sighted, and should have been better thought out.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Brandon L. Deriso on July 1, 2009 at 12:47am

Well, as for the physical CD requirement, I suppose I could see the argument from the side of wanting to keep a consistent interface for Art & Sales links etc. After all, I don't think think this prevents you from offering MP3s sales on Amazon or elsewhere.

That being said, and IF that were there reasoning, I think they could probably just get away with things like Art requirements.

All in all, I'm not a fan of the physical requirements, because (with today's infrastructure) Having a physical CD does not guarantee musical quality or even Hi-def professionally mastered sound more than an mp3.

Alternatives? That's a toughie, which can't really be answered without Pandora stating the motives for the specifics of this program. I am going to go surf their site for a bit now.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dante Cullari on July 1, 2009 at 1:52am

I have a fairly simple solution. I'm 21 years old last month, and I'm the Founder and President of an alternative model for the Music Industry, called Beat-Play. Beat-Play solves every single problem associated with the music industry today, including Piracy eventually. The Internet is a beautiful thing. It allows for a tool, like Beat-Play, to be accepted by Independent Artists, like myself, everywhere, and it also allows for things like free promotion, increased revenue streams, increased sales and profits, decreased sale price, and complete creative and professional freedom over every aspect of an artist's career. Beat-Play can provide this and a LOT more. It is a completely risk-free environment, where posting songs or stems is free, and we only take 5.5% of whatever the artist chooses to charge. So we don't get paid until you do, and because of that, we promote you for free in a vast number of different ways, including EXPANDING THE PANDORA MODEL IN WAYS THEY WILL WISH THEY DREAMED OF BEFORE STEPPING OVER TO THE DARK SIDE. To learn more about Beat-Play go to http://beatplay.com/forums and go to About Beat-Play. Learn about the World's first Audio Component Auction. More info soon with videos from last week's South Park Music Tour, The Highest Independent Music Tour in the World, in CO, with footage from a speech I gave on the subject of Beat-Play to the artists, as well as footage of a lot of really talented bands, plus interviews with the independent artists and fans. Also look out for CD reviews. 10 coming soon. If you want a review DM me on Twitter /illprincipe22 If you're an artist and you want some FREE PROMOTION, go to: http://musicwithoutlabels.com This is a brand new site. It's a place to get artist's information so we can contact you when Beat-Play is ready for Beta testing this fall, and also you can get some free promotion while you wait. Link us in your facebook or twitter and tell your friends that the internet indie revolution has come and already conquered. Nothing can stop the wave.

Attachments:

• BP avatar.jpg, 2 KB

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Andrew Goodrich on July 1, 2009 at 11:36am

A new update - Bruce Houghton from hypebot received a response from Tim Westergren (founder of Pandora) addressing some of the issues and rationale:


We appreciate the scrutiny everyone's bringing to this – it’s a very important issue, and one for which we feel a great sense of responsibility.

Here are some general thoughts from Pandora on this.

There are a number of reasons for us to add this requirement. It’s something we’ve been contemplating for a long time. Just to be clear, it's not about making money from Amazon. We don't get any portion of the $29.95, and even though we're thrilled at the amount of music we sell through them, the commissions we get are a small part of the overall business (it's all about advertising). So these requirements have nothing at all to do with revenue.

There are really three principal reasons – user experience, improving the meta data, and managing submissions.

We believe it's very important from a user-experience standpoint to have functioning 'buy' links. We get loads of complaints about broken links when listeners try to buy an album that is not available on Amazon – when that happens it feels like Pandora is malfunctioning, and it’s a real drag for a listeners – disappointing, and a waste of time. Requiring enrollment will of course mitigate this issue. It’s clearly the right choice from the product/user experience perspective.


Clean meta-data is a constant struggle for us (and all online services for that matter). Our entire system is based on a concept of UPC and track information (perhaps someday that will change, but it’s one of our most basic building blocks dating back almost 10 years)- it's how we identify the music internally and talk to all sorts of external partners, vendors, distributors, etc. We also need album art; and we get all of this from Amazon. Requiring registration at Amazon is a very effective solution for us.

Finally, it serves as a way to manage our flow of submissions. Pandora remains intensely focused on providing a level playing field. Our aim is to find the best music we can - indie, major or otherwise – and to add as much of that as we can. Given our sole focus on quality, we're looking for folks who have a demonstrated seriousness about their craft. Just as investing the time and money to create a professional sounding CD is a strong predictor of quality, having invested or being willing to invest in an online distribution mechanism is another signal.

We are huge believers in not discriminating against aspiring/emerging artists – 70% of the 75,000 artists in our collection are not on a major label. All we’re asking of artists is to make great music, and have it available for easy purchase for Pandora’s audience.

I hope this makes sense.

One additional clarification.

mreasy: Pandora pays tens of millions of dollars per year in royalties to artists and terrestrial radio pays nothing. Although it’s not pertinent to this particular conversation, Pandora pays a substantial percentage of its gross revenue to artists.

Thanks Tim (Founder, Pandora)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Marja Ernst on July 1, 2009 at 12:57pm

Damn. He makes it all sound so reasonable!

The thing is. . . he is looking at it from a customer viewpoint (understandably), whereas we are looking at it from the standpoint of indie artists. Two VERY different viewpoints, and not always completely compatible. Yes, as indie artists, we should be concerned about what the end customer thinks, but still...

Personally, I don't think that not having a CD on Amazon makes the listening experience "a waste of time" or "a real drag for the customers". Listeners of terrestrial radio stations and many online stations don't have access to immediate 'buy it here' links. No, if they like the music, they will seek it out themselves! However, Pandora is obviously trying to create a different structure. While I can understand their desire to do so, I resent the fact that Tim Westergren makes NOT having these links to Amazon sound like such a drag for customers, and the underlying assumption that artists `serious about their craft`must have their music on Amazon.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by James Pew on July 1, 2009 at 7:45pm

I'm a fan of Pandora. I think Tim Westergen and the Music Genome Project are generally awesome. However I have to agree with many of the people commenting here. What makes little sense for a company that has always been friend to the indie artist is A) why the partnership with Amazon (someone said CD baby makes more sense...Uh Huh it certainly does. B) Why the requirement of the physical medium, when said physical medium is soooo on the way out.

I understand the need to filter through the crap. I understand the need to raise the bar in order to make this filtering process workable. But this just seems the wrong way to go about it!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Bev Barnett on July 17, 2009 at 5:36pm

I popped up on Twitter when this all first came about and supported the "barrier to entry." Yes, Marja is right, Pandora is looking at this from the customer's standpoint. We ALL should ALWAYS be looking at things from our customer's standpoint.

The barrier to entry of $30 and Amazon distribution automatically prevents my 15 year old son from submitting the songs he and his bandmates are working on. I love him of course, but no, they're not ready for prime time.

And I agree with the Band The Endless - I've actually never submitted our CDs before because I figured the odds were against me with so much music flooding in. Ironically, now that there is a charge, I WILL send our CDs in.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by RnBMistress on July 18, 2009 at 8:11pm

I have an account with Pandra as a music listener, I did inquire from them about sending in
some music of an artist whom I'm working with. They sent me a long list of to do's, it's stored in a folder.

I agree with A-Town Brown on this one: "I see what Pandora has done as a way to make sure that they have only the artists who have their stuff together and are serious about putting music out that they believe is great quality out to the world."

I've also checked out the Amazon advantag program through MSN programs. I am not keen on making the commitment on giving them (Amazon.com) 55 percent of my music. Pandora may have chosen Amazon because it's big music outlet/distributor, and it' well known.

▶ Reply to This

• First
• Previous
• Next
• Last